THEIST & ATHEIST
Atheist: Good to see you Mr. Theist. May I know what religion do you belong to?
Theist: Good to see you too Sir. I am a Hindu.
Atheist: Isn’t Hinduism the religion with innumerable gods?
Theist: Yes in Hinduism we do worship a lot many gods and goddesses.
Atheist: Isn’t worshiping so many gods a big load of work? Do you also pray?
Theist: Yes at times it does get a little difficult but we know how to manage our stuff and our pooja. And yes I do pray.
Atheist: so you must be a believer of god as well, are you?
Theist: I do believe in God why else would I pray
Atheist: So what is god for you and how do you see your God and which god do you prefer worshipping?
Theist: God for me is all that helps sustain human life and humanity in our world. In Hinduism, everything and everyone that helps further the stated idea is a god.
Atheist: You basically mean that all those people that you worship as Ram, Lakshman, Indra, Hanuman are responsible for sustaining human life and humanity on this earth.
Theist: These people are but personifications of various factors that help sustain human life and humanity.
Atheist: Do you mean to say that had people not worshiped a god or two then humans wouldn’t have existed on earth? Sir, I would like to remind you that religion and this idea of god is itself responsible for various wars and the deaths of billions of people around the world. Don’t you think that your idea of god is a little ill-founded?
Theist: It is possible. Had god not existed we might have killed each other at a rate much higher than we did. In fact, if you would notice, the rate of genocides and of communal killings is directly proportional to the rate at which people are giving up on religion.
Religion, be it any, is but a shared manner of living life by following certain prescribed rituals which are but to inculcate certain values and morals in the followers of that religion. In order to make it easier for the followers to believe in the morals and values, in some religions, these values and morals have been personified as gods.
Answering the second half of your question, it isn’t religion that has claimed innumerable lives; it is the politicization of religion for the attainment of power and position which has caused all the deaths.
Atheist: The way you are portraying religion, you seem to be somehow stating that a truly religious person would never commit a crime. But we have various examples of religious people committing crimes.
Theist: We need to define a religious being, a religious being is not someone who goes to the church or to the temple everyday a religious being is someone who follows a religion for the greater good i.e. for the promotion of humanity.
It is possible for people to misunderstand religion and it is possible for a religion to be misunderstood. So a religious being is one who manages to, despite all vulnerabilities, understand and follow religion as it truly means. A religious being is one who realizes that religion is a tool to promote harmony amongst individuals and to make our world all the more beautiful and livable.
I am sure that there won’t be many such religious people as criminals.
Atheist: Your idea of religion and of a religious being is not the one which is endorsed by a lot many people. What then makes you think that your idea is the right idea?
Theist: I do not ask for endorsements, in fact, nothing that is right needs to be endorsed. Endorsements are for ideas and stuff which aren’t acceptable. All religions and all religious books when properly read and decoded talk of nothing more than what I am saying over here.
Atheist: isn’t your idea an extremely demanding one? What if I ask you to consider Atheism?
Theist: It is a demanding idea for those who are weak and selfish. I would love to consider atheism but the problem is that I do not understand Atheism.
What is Atheism and who is an Atheist?
Atheist: Atheism is merely a lack of belief in God. An atheist is a person who does not believe that god exists.
Theist: Isn’t a lack of belief in god also a belief? I mean when an atheist says that I do not believe in god does that not naturally mean that the atheist believes that ‘God does not exist’? is that not a belief as well?
Atheist: You can look at it that way but in atheism what simply do not believe that god exists. For us, the only things worth believing in are scientific facts.
Theist: So are you saying that for atheists science is god?
Atheist: Atheists do not have a god. For us Science and logic and reasoning is all that matters and it is these things only that have made the world as it is and not some arbitrary idea of god.
Theist: God is someone whom we consider as the sole reason for the existence of our world. For a Theist it is God in the magical human form which is responsible for making the world as it is and for an Atheist it is, as you said, science. So basically and ‘logically’ Science is the god for atheists. Isn’t it?
Atheist: Science is certainly the reason behind all that exists but it isn’t god for us as we do not worship it. The atheists simply follow science and since we do not worship it, it cannot be called the atheist’s ‘god’.
Theist: isn’t following also a form of worshiping. More importantly, nowhere is it said that a god is someone who is necessarily worshiped. It does not matter whether atheists worship god or not. What qualifies ‘science’ as atheist’s god is the atheist claim that science is supreme and that the world is created by science.
Atheist: isn’t religion a requisite for the creation of god. Atheism is not a religion and we are not unified like other religious beings and since atheism is no religion, science cannot be the atheist’s god.
Theist: Did you not just use the word we?
The fact that the Atheists share an identity, the fact that the atheists share a belief, the fact that an atheist defends another atheist when attacked (intellectually), the fact that the atheists have unionized on almost all forums possible are facts strong enough to prove that atheism has already turned into a religion.
Atheist: Did you not also state that religion means living a common way of life. I do not see atheists living life in any common way. We live our lives in a way that pleases us and not in a way prescribed by any imaginary god or prophet.
Theist: I am amazed at your ignorance. I will prove how the atheists do have a common way of life.
Consider yourself, You say that you do not believe in god, so logically your actions will also be determined by the same belief.
Now if we randomly pick any common and daily act, for example the act of ‘Going to the church’ we will notice that the true atheists do act in a common way and that common way is the way which is different from the theist way.
An Atheist, since he/she does not believe in god, will visit the church for all reasons other than that to worship Jesus. When every atheist does the same thing then such a thing becomes a part of the atheist way of life.
Similarly, if we take circumcision, an atheist will decide upon having is done or not only after duly and scientifically weighing the pros and cons of it. If the pros outweigh the cons then the atheist will gladly go for it. What we need to note here is that the result of this analysis shall be almost universally applicable and all atheists will consider having it or not on the basis of the same result. Hence, the scientific analysis of the act of circumcision shall decide its adoption or rejection by the atheists.
The atheists live their lives on the basis of science. The atheist way of life is the scientific way.
I believe that there is only one way of living life and it is the scientific way. The Theists live the scientific life under the cover of their religion and through rituals while the atheists prefer living is without any cover and without enforcing it on anyone but they do have a common way of life.
Atheist: The beauty of such discussions is that they do not have an end. Neither of us will ever accept the other one as correct so we must end it here. Moreover, I would not agree with what you say because you are the only one to say what you say. However, it was great talking to you and I would love to have more such enlightening discussions with you in the future.
Theist: Yes my arguments are a little different and not many people think or talk the way I do but it is good to see that you, unlike others, are at least willing enough to listen to what i have to say. I look forward to having more such discussions with you in the days to come.
P.S - ALSO READ ' CLASH OF MEANS' http://modernobjective.blogspot.in/2015/11/clash-of-means.html
Theist: Good to see you too Sir. I am a Hindu.
Atheist: Isn’t Hinduism the religion with innumerable gods?
Theist: Yes in Hinduism we do worship a lot many gods and goddesses.
Atheist: Isn’t worshiping so many gods a big load of work? Do you also pray?
Theist: Yes at times it does get a little difficult but we know how to manage our stuff and our pooja. And yes I do pray.
Atheist: so you must be a believer of god as well, are you?
Theist: I do believe in God why else would I pray
Atheist: So what is god for you and how do you see your God and which god do you prefer worshipping?
Theist: God for me is all that helps sustain human life and humanity in our world. In Hinduism, everything and everyone that helps further the stated idea is a god.
Atheist: You basically mean that all those people that you worship as Ram, Lakshman, Indra, Hanuman are responsible for sustaining human life and humanity on this earth.
Theist: These people are but personifications of various factors that help sustain human life and humanity.
Atheist: Do you mean to say that had people not worshiped a god or two then humans wouldn’t have existed on earth? Sir, I would like to remind you that religion and this idea of god is itself responsible for various wars and the deaths of billions of people around the world. Don’t you think that your idea of god is a little ill-founded?
Theist: It is possible. Had god not existed we might have killed each other at a rate much higher than we did. In fact, if you would notice, the rate of genocides and of communal killings is directly proportional to the rate at which people are giving up on religion.
Religion, be it any, is but a shared manner of living life by following certain prescribed rituals which are but to inculcate certain values and morals in the followers of that religion. In order to make it easier for the followers to believe in the morals and values, in some religions, these values and morals have been personified as gods.
Answering the second half of your question, it isn’t religion that has claimed innumerable lives; it is the politicization of religion for the attainment of power and position which has caused all the deaths.
Atheist: The way you are portraying religion, you seem to be somehow stating that a truly religious person would never commit a crime. But we have various examples of religious people committing crimes.
Theist: We need to define a religious being, a religious being is not someone who goes to the church or to the temple everyday a religious being is someone who follows a religion for the greater good i.e. for the promotion of humanity.
It is possible for people to misunderstand religion and it is possible for a religion to be misunderstood. So a religious being is one who manages to, despite all vulnerabilities, understand and follow religion as it truly means. A religious being is one who realizes that religion is a tool to promote harmony amongst individuals and to make our world all the more beautiful and livable.
I am sure that there won’t be many such religious people as criminals.
Atheist: Your idea of religion and of a religious being is not the one which is endorsed by a lot many people. What then makes you think that your idea is the right idea?
Theist: I do not ask for endorsements, in fact, nothing that is right needs to be endorsed. Endorsements are for ideas and stuff which aren’t acceptable. All religions and all religious books when properly read and decoded talk of nothing more than what I am saying over here.
Atheist: isn’t your idea an extremely demanding one? What if I ask you to consider Atheism?
Theist: It is a demanding idea for those who are weak and selfish. I would love to consider atheism but the problem is that I do not understand Atheism.
What is Atheism and who is an Atheist?
Atheist: Atheism is merely a lack of belief in God. An atheist is a person who does not believe that god exists.
Theist: Isn’t a lack of belief in god also a belief? I mean when an atheist says that I do not believe in god does that not naturally mean that the atheist believes that ‘God does not exist’? is that not a belief as well?
Atheist: You can look at it that way but in atheism what simply do not believe that god exists. For us, the only things worth believing in are scientific facts.
Theist: So are you saying that for atheists science is god?
Atheist: Atheists do not have a god. For us Science and logic and reasoning is all that matters and it is these things only that have made the world as it is and not some arbitrary idea of god.
Theist: God is someone whom we consider as the sole reason for the existence of our world. For a Theist it is God in the magical human form which is responsible for making the world as it is and for an Atheist it is, as you said, science. So basically and ‘logically’ Science is the god for atheists. Isn’t it?
Atheist: Science is certainly the reason behind all that exists but it isn’t god for us as we do not worship it. The atheists simply follow science and since we do not worship it, it cannot be called the atheist’s ‘god’.
Theist: isn’t following also a form of worshiping. More importantly, nowhere is it said that a god is someone who is necessarily worshiped. It does not matter whether atheists worship god or not. What qualifies ‘science’ as atheist’s god is the atheist claim that science is supreme and that the world is created by science.
Atheist: isn’t religion a requisite for the creation of god. Atheism is not a religion and we are not unified like other religious beings and since atheism is no religion, science cannot be the atheist’s god.
Theist: Did you not just use the word we?
The fact that the Atheists share an identity, the fact that the atheists share a belief, the fact that an atheist defends another atheist when attacked (intellectually), the fact that the atheists have unionized on almost all forums possible are facts strong enough to prove that atheism has already turned into a religion.
Atheist: Did you not also state that religion means living a common way of life. I do not see atheists living life in any common way. We live our lives in a way that pleases us and not in a way prescribed by any imaginary god or prophet.
Theist: I am amazed at your ignorance. I will prove how the atheists do have a common way of life.
Consider yourself, You say that you do not believe in god, so logically your actions will also be determined by the same belief.
Now if we randomly pick any common and daily act, for example the act of ‘Going to the church’ we will notice that the true atheists do act in a common way and that common way is the way which is different from the theist way.
An Atheist, since he/she does not believe in god, will visit the church for all reasons other than that to worship Jesus. When every atheist does the same thing then such a thing becomes a part of the atheist way of life.
Similarly, if we take circumcision, an atheist will decide upon having is done or not only after duly and scientifically weighing the pros and cons of it. If the pros outweigh the cons then the atheist will gladly go for it. What we need to note here is that the result of this analysis shall be almost universally applicable and all atheists will consider having it or not on the basis of the same result. Hence, the scientific analysis of the act of circumcision shall decide its adoption or rejection by the atheists.
The atheists live their lives on the basis of science. The atheist way of life is the scientific way.
I believe that there is only one way of living life and it is the scientific way. The Theists live the scientific life under the cover of their religion and through rituals while the atheists prefer living is without any cover and without enforcing it on anyone but they do have a common way of life.
Atheist: The beauty of such discussions is that they do not have an end. Neither of us will ever accept the other one as correct so we must end it here. Moreover, I would not agree with what you say because you are the only one to say what you say. However, it was great talking to you and I would love to have more such enlightening discussions with you in the future.
Theist: Yes my arguments are a little different and not many people think or talk the way I do but it is good to see that you, unlike others, are at least willing enough to listen to what i have to say. I look forward to having more such discussions with you in the days to come.
P.S - ALSO READ ' CLASH OF MEANS' http://modernobjective.blogspot.in/2015/11/clash-of-means.html
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